The Gown Student Newspaper at Queen's University Belfast

Paul Lilly is not paid to be an entertainer any more than he is paid to fix floodlights. Paul has some good qualities as a representative but he gives the general impression that he can't be arsed to use these qualities for the benifit of minority students.

Have them all taken out of office and thrown into the cold dark Lagan.

That is definitely a reason why. A lot of the work Barry and Paul do involves one on one interaction with students, although not all of it. However, what student sees or is aware of a paper (or papers) put to University Committees that are put on the back burner by the Uni, the debates with the powers that be that take place in meetings, the changes effected by someone like a VP Equality or Education that help students in certain situations?

The nature of their roles (generally) is such that very often a student will be unaware of the work they have done/will do for them until they are in need of their assistance. I remember criticism levelled at myself last year that would have had you believe that I was the worst in the world, and yet there would have been others who would have told you the complete opposite. Very often the criticism comes from people who either have an agenda, are speculating or who are simply stirring the pot. I understand your point but again it doesn't really give you all that much to go on does it? What about the times you weren't anywhere near the office? What about the students who have been helped by them and would sing their praises - and have done on this site? Ultimately it's subjective. I see officers who would generally be considered to do a lot of work, and wouldn't disagree with that, but I would question the value of a lot of their work. If you want to get something done, you don't necessarily have to sit until 11pm writing a paper about it down to the colour of the tacks you are using to put up posters. Over the last years the line between the Union and its workings vs the University and its workings has become increasingly thin. Personally, i'd rather have officers doing things they individually and as a group see fit (within reason) rather than spending an extra 10 hours in their office to tick boxes for someone from across the road. The relationship between the 2 obviously necessitates co-operation and adherence to certain rules but too many officers, in my opinion, are far too keen to impress senior management of the University and come across as "big boy in a big boy's job".

As for the Gown, I have to say I wouldn't have been behind any moves to oust them. Some things published are childish and silly and often offensive, but ultimately a bit of craic. I think it's naive to think it's Barry and Paul driving that one forward though. You'd have to look down a nearby corridor for your culprit...

Fergus, I understand that a lot of people spout rubbish about the sabbs because they dont really know what goes on. I also agree that it is the responsibility of the sabbs to make sure students can express what they want freely to those who are elected to respresent them.

But i think that the mess that some areas of the union are in started when sabbs thought they could get away with coming in at 11am and being away by 3pm, or when they think that speaking to people is the real work. Its important, but not what they are there for. They are there to effect change and to maintain a level of representation for students.

I think Lilly and Duffy have across looking so bad, because their jobs do not produce high profile results such as the publication of the SU mag or interaction with clubs and socs. But I feel they have not been professional in the way they have handled themselves this year. Blocking the gown, which they really should just put up with and prove wrong through their work, and I have to say every time I walk past the sabb office, Lilly and Duffy have always had friends there talking to them. And I know they are friends, not students they are helping.

Typical comments spouting rubbish...

The truth is very few people know how much work the sabbs are doing. If Shane did the same amount of work he does now but went out socialising the way LilDuff do people would say he did no work at all. Having a social life outside work shouldn’t be mistaken for not being able to perform in work. Most of these opinions are based on seeing people in the office after 7 in the evening or because they talk enthusiastically about part of their job. Have a bit of sense and realise that actions like that are as self serving as anything else - very much a "LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT HOW MUCH WORK I DO, AND LOOK HOW FAIR I AM TRYING TO BRING IN THIS CHANGE TO WAGES WHICH COULD EVEN IMPACT ON MYSELF " exercise. Spending silly hours in the office and talking about how much work you do doesnt necessarily translate into a lot of (useful!) work. Half the stuff that sabbs do for students is ignored by the majority of the student body anyway... see self defence lessons, lectures, fair trade events etc. Attendances are almost always piss poor and you’re left trying to drag your mates along as a favour. Maybe if sabbs were a bit more of a face about campus, like duffy and lilly etc, people would take a bit more interest in what was actually goin on in the place.

In all fairness, them boys are wile craic.

Enough.

Enough.

Who cares?

Why are we giving this snippet of a letter so much attention?

JESUS!

I think Laura Hawthorne should read her job description. She is meant to represent and defend students not encourage that they be disciplined.

It is hardly surprising however as she is so out of touch with student views and opinions. Maybe if she had some form of a social life she may understand student concerns and views. Then she may carry out her job correctly nstead of sucking up to resident groups constantly. Us students demand a better VP Community next year! She is a complete waste of space!!!

Awk now. They do alot of work for the Union. As someone said, it's nice to see VP's visible around Queens...there's never a day when a smile doesn't come across my face when I see LilDuff (like our own form of Brangelina ) walking around campus and sorting out problems.

Shane Brogan should learn some social skills!

Yes I think the people at the Gown and sabs including Laura and Shane are jealous of Duffy and Lilly. They are too great popular men who actively represent student views. I think Laura and Shane are jealous of the fact that they will never be as popular as Duffy or Lilly.

Interesting discussion chaps! The difference between a Brogan union and a Lilly union (or anyone else at all really) is the difference between a totalitarian dictatorship and a democracy.

Duffman and Lilly are some craic. Even seen them up at halls one time giving out free Union stuff and chatting to us first years. The only two I have met so far.

I dont know what all the bashing of Lilly/Duffy is all about. Is everyone just jealous of them are what? I just wish one of them had went for President this year so that the University was properly challenged! There has been too many nodding heads of acquiescence of late. I used to enjoy going to the Union on a Thursday night and that isn't even the same anymore. Time for proper change to the leadership of the Union - thanks to Duffy and Lilly to the great work you have done so far this year. The VAST majority of students love you both.

From this forum I get the impression that Laura is the most hardworking officer? What does her job actually entail? I take it as Community Officer she is supposed to be representing and defending students to the wider community. I have heard some innocent students have been badly assaulted recently in the Holyland area, I hope Miss Hawthorne is effectively representing and helping these students.

Brogans email is broke.

If the only sabs you know are Duffy and Lilly because you see them socializing in the bar then that maight be a clue that the other sabs are to busy DOING THEIR JOBS to go and get hammered.

Duffy and Lilly haven't been tasked to make changes they've been tasked to do the job they were elected to do, in this they have failed.

Its becoming clear that they were elected to their positions not because they had any interest in doing the job but because the groups that have a stranglehold over these sabbatical positions wanted to maintain the status quo.

Duffy and Lilly have just gotten a years worth of easy money by coasting along on the hard work done by other sabs.

Everyone is allowed to socialise Adam, what has "socialising" got to do with anything, and why does it make a sabb better at their job?
Also, I don't know whether they have been good or not. I'd have a fair idea that Laura would be the best as she seems incredibly passionate about what she does.
Can you tell me what any of the rest of them have done so that we can have more informed opinions? You seem to know quite a bit so that'd be helpful!

What the hell is going on here?! The only sabbs I know are Duffy and Lilly! They are the only ones I ever see out socialising and mixing with students. And they also pay a substantial part of their pay in the Union bars....unlike the rest. What sort of changes do you expect these lads to make???? I think they have done very well so far, Duffy is probably the best education officer and Lilly is a much better VP Equality than Shane Grogan.

His email isn't broke. He emailed me very recently.

J Simpson you're so useless that you're writing into the gown about someone whos 'useless'. at least hes getting paid for it. looking forward to the letter, lillys an entertainer and he does so a bit for students despite what you say.

Can't wait to read this letter in full and have a laugh! It's already gold!

I've only read a bit of gown this year but at least they are providing a service to students which is undeniably beneficial.

Paul Lilly, you're so useless you could almost get a job in government not doing work there. Writing to the gown to complaint what a waste of time. Seriously is there actually work you could be doing which could improve the lives of students at Queens? Like your colleagues Laura and Gareth and Shane?

MASSIVE LOL "from behind his desk" in relation to shane, the man is never in. his emails broke. hes not a patch on ciarnan or roger bu ah well.

Here Here: Lilly and Barry are a complete joke. When I heard there was a resignation in the SU I thought that one of them had finally come to terms with the fact that accepting students money for doing no work wasn't acceptable. But then reality came crashing down. The Idea that Lilly or Duffy would ever do the right thing over the expedient thing or the thing which gets them up the greasy pole or money in their packet is a fantasy.

There are a couple of excellent Sabbs who the others free ride on … Hawthorne or Shane for example. Pity that the rest cant put in the same effort.

I think the minus ratings on these three comments by three stooges speaks volumes.. it is LILLY and his cronies that are unrepresentative of students... Hopefully soon they will be swept from office and replaced by people who will actually do some work.

"Everyone knows the man and loves him"

And you say The Gown are overly biased...

Massive LOL.

Shane Brogan, that's B.R.O.G.A.N.

You might recognize him as they guy doing all the work while certain other officers have UV party's at the Bot or the guy who gets his work in on time rather than a week late.

He'd also be the one who's gone to meetings and made themselves accountable for their actions to council.

He'd also be the chap who's been pushing for accountability for student officers through performance related pay (not play as would suit some other officers)so that future officers don't simply coast through a year of work.

In short he's the fella who's been keeping the union going, picking up the slack from other officers and generally makeing sure the union runs as its supposed to.

And would you believe he's done all of this from behind his desk!

"Everyone knows the man and loves him"

LOL.

Paul Lilly, What a joke. If you have time to get annoyed at the gown you clearly are not working hard enough. What the hell do people pay you for?

Look forward to hearing the full response. The gown as usual have been overly biased in their views in their recent article on Lilly. From my own knowledge he does great work for students and is regularly seen on campus talking to different students, essentially this is his job, not being stuck in an office. Everyone knows the man and loves him, cant say the same about some other sabs, i dnt think half the student population knows who the president is! Shane who?

Great to hear Paul, i will see you representing the students at the match tomorrow.

Paul Lilly abu! great man for the students, not like brogan!!!!

Go Paul! Its about time someone stood up to the gown, not representative of students at all.