The Gown Student Newspaper at Queen's University Belfast

@ Sticks and stones- perhaps if you had a choice, English wouldn't be your first language, and that's absolutely fair enough. However the purpose of signs is to be informative and to direct people, and that will best serve both Nationalists and Unionists if they are in English. Let's say Gaelic was used on the signs - how many of even the Nationalist Community would actually read the Gaelic part to gain the information? They're not going to look past a translation in their first language just below it!

I'm more than happy for people to express their cultural heritage - I'm a member of the Alliance Party, and believe absolutely in non sectarianism in all forms. However, I just can't help feel this would just be another great waste of money for something that would be of no practical use - if we want to encourage the use of the Irish language (heck, I woulnd't mind learning some myself) I think the resources would be better used in running language classes or even cultural hertitage events. The changing of the signs wouldn't practically benefit anyone, and whether you agree with them or not, there's no doubt this would cause upset amongst some communities, and would lead to drawing dividing lines within the Queen's Community, rather than trying to being it closer together to a point where things like this aren't an issue.

In an ideal world, I'd support the signs, but I just don't think we're at a place were it would be accepted, and I think there are ways the money could be better spent that would be more productive and less divisive. I'd ask you please to consider seriously these comments, and not just dismiss them - I think there's a middle ground to be found here. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Whether or not giving out one's QOL details is illegal or not, it is not in the spirit of the election for a team to do so. If people really want to vote for candidates then they will do so at their free will. The acts of the GAA contingent here is a display of pretty bad form.

If we are going to have irish on signs in the name of diversity will there also be translations in ulster scots? We do have three official languages afterall.

It is the mindset of individuals such who choose to view irish culture as intimidating or devisive that make it so.

As a point in case I was with some friends in the summer most of whom were protestants and myself and a catholic friend started to sing Irish traditional music. Much to my surprise we were soon faced with an onslaught of verbal attacks. They wished to know why we were being so sectarian. We apologised to keep them happy. But tbh I didn't realise the Pretty Little girl from Omagh was in the IRA. Instead of listening to the lyrics they chose to hear a political msg where there was none. Prehaps you are doing the same?

And English is certainly my 1st language, but had I a choice in the matter do you think it would be?

Irish signs around queens will not encourage Irish language education. It'll only serve to create another non-issue that takes away from more pressing issues that the exec should be dealing with.

Er...claiming Irish heritage...thats not really relevant to use of languages.

Signs are there to be practical. How many of those who claim 'Irish heritage' can honestly say they are at least as fluent in Irish as they are in English; that it is their first language. I'm going to say its remarkably few. Even a few Shinners who use it in the assembly arent anywhere near fluent. You'd think if a language is so vital to their Irish heritage, they would at least have made the effort and be fluent in it. Irish signs would serve no useful purpose other than as political symbolism and one-upmanship.

Surely if genuinely concerned that the NI Education system should improve in encouraging languages, you would agree it should do so prioritising languages which are most practically useful both to a persons career options and the overall NI economy. Irish would be pretty far down the most used languages in international business one can safely assume.

Oh and just to be cross-commmunity, i'd pour similar contempt on similar proposals from an Ulster-Scots prospective.

The whole Irish thing I did think was a bit much tbh, because I knew it would be seen as a nationalist only policy.

Obviously signage solely in Irish would be very alienating but I doubt Miss Lynch was suggesting that the English signs be removed - that would be sectarian.

As a matter of fact nationalist students could equally argue that it is sectarian for 100% of the signs to be in English when 50% of the student body claim Irish heritage. I think most nationalists have grown to accept these double standards instead of attempting to gain equality.

Shame really, I love the Irish/English road signs down south and would love to see them cross the border. It would encourage Irish education amoung those that claim Irish heritage, which would be great as the NI education system doesn't do a good job of encouraging any languages.

Seems to me that if this was a text msg it was probably only sent to the candidate in question's so-called friends. Who they probably thought were going to vote for them anyway. If they aren't friends why would they have their numbers? I still get my mum to do banking for me when on holiday, this kind of thing isn't actually dodgy or questionable amoung people who trust eachother.

Could we stop talking about "The CU-DUP alliance" its really misleading. As a regular CU attender only 2 of the 5 elected on Critchlow's ticket have ever been to CU and of them at most 1 DUP supporter (can't imagine England, Scotland and Malaysia are massive hotbeds of DUP activity!) Fact is the GAA are just bitter that they lost to a better and more positive campaign.

@cw - Since the elections are for the SU exec, why wouldn't people campaign there? Obviously it can get a bit overwhelming but if you do feel like canvassers have become harrassers then feel free to report them. Nobody was meant to campaign in the library, as any canvasser who asked the receptionists at the front desk would have been told - if you got hassled there then again, report them.

I find the idea of banning candidates from campaigning in the SU really bizarre - why would you do that when that's where the Exec are based, and where half of their work centres around?

The rainforest's worth of posters were all collected by an army of candidates and their helpers on Wednesday night, then recycled - not as good as not printing them but at least they weren't binned

I would like to confirm that the John B Dick of comment number 40 fame is not the real John B. Dick. Down with this sort of thing!

I didn't really appreciate being approached whilst writing an essay on the PC's downstairs in the Library. Thankfully, I had already voted, and not for the group which was encouraging me to do so.
This is my second university. At the first, there were rules which prohibited any campaigning on SU grounds (ie the Union) and within the Library/Lecture theatres etc. I think this would be a good idea as it would also remove half a rainforest worth of unimaginative posters.

John,

There were also people canvassing outside Winemark and in the Elms bar so you can't really point fingers at people going around the Hatfield! I was prity much made vote by a member of the Downesy guy team in Scholars

Thanks

Have to say I was actually approached in this way myself by a senior member of the Law/GAA axis. My disgust at being approached in this way was only mirrored by the shock I felt that this candidate had time in his busy schedule to actually text me

Reader, you are a hero.

I just thought I'd mention that there were students canvassing in the Hatfield, walking around with a laptop getting people to vote. I saw a guy asking them which candidates were Catholic and just voting for them. The election results were a triumph in the face of these types of people who just vote blindly.

@ Wise up

Suffice to say i dont at all agree, and believe your being disingenuous about motives for wanting Irish reintroduced in the SU. I also disagree with your view on what "our national" anything is, as i dont belong to the nation you seem to claim we are part of...but i'm not going to get dragged into the finer points of an age old, well worn debate that will only go round in circles on here.

I agree with smiling student - party politics has no place whatsoever in student politics. The fact that it has had a place in recent years is a reflection of why people have become so disillusioned with the law/gaa ticket - Party politics in NI barely works itself much like a certain few sabbaticals we've had in the past. @ full time member of staff, check out what an alliance is as the last time I checked 2 out of the 6 who got in were christian union and one was DUP, thats hardly an alliance. At least this year the exec is more representative of the student body, a far cry from the law/gaa alliance - now that was an alliance.
Finally, if it is true that law/gaa were involved in acquiring personal account details for the purposes of electoral fraud then they should be dealt with harshly. If people can't be bothered to vote or didn't have 2 minutes out of the 2 days to do so - then thats up to them. Unless law/gaa were so concerned at voter apathy that they altruistically took it upon themselves to give the apathetic a voice (all be it their own)- thats a different matter. Quite a funny matter as they can't even win cheating.

there were several other candidates on a ticket together (6 of them to be precise) who illegally emailed all qub schools asking them to pass on the email to all students, the email was aksing for their vote. these students were actually quite successful in the elections. this is perhaps something which could be investigated instead of poking holes in those who lost election campaigns? it doesnt matter now!

how exactly is it divisive by the way for a candiate to place emphasis on encouraging the use of OUR national language? wake up people!

Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam

go raibh míle maith agaibh.

This election wasnt nor should it be fought along political party lines, the single SF candidate aside. The Students Union isnt there to solve the national question, nor will it ever be able to. It's there to represent students from all quarters...the new executive is (or will be i should say) a diverse cross-section of the student population with nationalists, unionists, christians, secularists, international students...

To try and suggest it is linked to any political party would be laughable.

"Given that there are only two CU members in the entire exec, and only one of them is in the DUP, I hardly think you can call it an alliance. I’d instead call this an alliance of everyone who is fed up of the GAA/Law ticket winning every year!"

Sums it up perfectly. It isn't a "let's get the GAA/law people out". It's a "let's get the best candidates in" triumph.

The end.

@ Hardened Cynic

Dragonslayers are known to be a very hard working and active society. Members of their committee are regularly requested in meetings to do with clubs and societies fiance and planning, I've even heard that there's a whole section of the clubs and societies review on fiance, e-mail and websites that was written by one of their members.

I remember two years ago several of their members gave talks at the Clubs and Societies training day, one was about running events and another was about the role of President's and Chairpersons.

Paul Courtney has been one of the better VPCS's in recent times and is known to have a good working relationship with Dragonslayers and Niall Bole, I'd imagine clubs and societies members knew this when they decided who to vote to take over VPCS.

@ Marc

While it may not have been there intention to use these details for illegal means the act of asking for them and then receiving them via an unsecured service like text message is a breach of university information security.

If a students details were gathered by a third party from these text messages, admittedly there's no evidence to prove this has happened, then those responsible for sending the messages are culpable for any illegal activity carried out.

There is a document that all students must sign that states that you must not disclose or ask another student to disclose their Queens Online details for the very reasons you outline above.

If the university takes this matter seriously and decides to act upon it I imagine that both the senders of the original message and those who replied back will face disciplinary measures.

@ Full time member of staff - Given that there are only two CU members in the entire exec, and only one of them is in the DUP, I hardly think you can call it an alliance. I'd instead call this an alliance of everyone who is fed up of the GAA/Law ticket winning every year!

I know that Bole had a lot of other societies and even sporting clubs behind him - what does it say about previous exec members when a sporting club will elect a Dragonslayer over a sportswoman?

@Someonesinhotwater. Your ATHENS account details provide access to thousands of pounds worth of journals and there is an illegal market for such information. However, contrary to what you say, nothing illegal was done, as it was not the intention of the people collecting the information to use it to this end.
That's not to say that the people who provided their details aren't potentially in trouble. As you say, they've breached university policy.

To ask another student to supply you with your Queens Online Login and Password is bad enough, it's an illegal breach of information security and can and has resulted in students getting suspended in the past.

These account details are worth hundreds if not thousands of pounds to the right people, given access to an ATHENS account it could compromise security for all students in Queens.

To use this information to attempt electoral fraud is utterly condemnable, so far in the wrong without a single justification for it.

Between two students this my be admissible as a personal matter but the e-mail appears to have been sent to multiple students much like a mass e-mail.

In this case the the University's only course of action may be to suspend the individuals who sent these massages and ban them from participating in student elections in the future.

LOL at GAA LAW, students will get a wake up call when next year when they have the DUP- CHIRSTIAN UNION ALLIANCE condeming every breath a student takes in the holyland next year,

@ mrsgoggins

"The only policy I would even consider as being divisive was possibly Grace Lynch’s promise of more use if the irish language around the Union; and even then, I highly doubt there was any sectarian or malevolent intent in this proposal."

Are you for real? You have to be extremely naive, or have an agenda of your own.
You realise that the Irish Language on signage etc. was commonplace in the Union at one time, and the motivation for having it there was to mark out the Union as Republican territory...you might as well paint the kerbstones outside as have such a move. Only in recent years has the Students Union been able to go some way to mending perceptions of it as being a 'coldhouse' for one side of the NI community...and you think a proposal to reintroduce the Irish Language from a party like Sinn Fein doesnt have secterian/tribal motivations?

Matty said "People say alot about Duffy and Lilly but they would represent ANY student no matter what, a great quality that both men have.".

I can only say that this isn't true. I don't know Lilly but I sent Duffy an email about a personal problem I had vis a vis education. I never received an acknowledgement.

I'm going to be kind and put this one down to incompetance.

I think the voters of this years election showed a great deal more integrity than previous years. It is clear from the outcome that those that voted made an informed decision based on the manifestos of the individual candidates and not blindly based on the ticket they were associated with (with the possible exception of VP Campaigns and Communications).

Gareth McGreevy has proved his worth in his present position and I'm sure will prove himself again next year.

However, I think the accusations of secarianism levelled at the McGreevy ticket grossly unfair. Just to make it clear, the Law Society and GAA society do not have a monopoly on all the Catholics studying at QUB. The only policy I would even consider as being divisive was possibly Grace Lynch's promise of more use if the irish language around the Union; and even then, I highly doubt there was any sectarian or malevolent intent in this proposal.

Indeed, I remember very little fuss being made of the Critchlow supporters who made questionable move of sending an email to all schools naming only the candidates on his ticket. I am not in any way accusing the those people named in the email. In fact, I supported a lot of them! I am merely stating that responding to this article with an air of "aw well, classic GAA" is rather unfair.

If people wanted to vote they'd vote for God's sake! It would take as much effort to send someone details of your QOL as to go online and do it yourself. Whoever sent these texts was idiotic and should have spent this effort ensuring a better manifesto/campaign to win votes in person instead of trying to cheat.

We will not moderate a comment which alleges specifics about an individual. If you have evidence to prove any allegation to be correct, or should you wish to email us directly about the matter, I can assure you that a reporter will look into it and an article will be written.

Catherine Wylie
Editor

You're actually serious? You allow all kinds of opinions to be aired in one direction, but the moment there's evidence in the other direction you guys take a huff?

We will not moderate comments which make allegations against individuals. However, if there is an issue/incident which you believe should be looked into by a Gown reporter, then please email info@thegown.org.uk.

Catherine Wylie
Editor

Why was my other comment not approved?

Well, the GAA alliance undid all their alleged "voting fraud" work by intentionally alienating every Protestant student, halving their potential vote. Maybe next year they'll consider running a more inclusive and less sectarian campaign and regain their supremacy.

Great to see Brogan so happy at the elections, smiling like a good'en! Any other time I've seen him this year he must have been suckin lemons!

Yeah, I know what you mean 'Metallica' - the new executive will not provide an adequate voice for all students. People say alot about Duffy and Lilly but they would represent ANY student no matter what, a great quality that both men have. But in fairness the only people who write bad stuff about them are those who are jealous of them.

New Executive = Puppets for the university who will not provide an adequate voice for students.

I was at hustings and was in no way impressed by the new DUP VP Education. He goes off on a complete tangent when he's talking and then forgets what he is talking about. Hopefully however, he will represent ALL students, not just a selected few.

The last comment from "Ok ok" does illustrate quite a bit of sense when they say McGreevy will be a "welcomed breath of fresh air" as he can work with all students. Hopefully he'll be more in touch with his executive than Shane Brogan was and do a better job for students. The new executive have a lot of hard-working qualities but hopefully they do not turn into puppets for the university.

Approve my comment!

I don't think anyone can observe whether Shane Brogan was a dictator unless they have been in office. I am aware certain things were pushed through this year without the consent of the executive. For example, do the gown know it was Shane Brogan that sent a letter to the press complaints commission and not Kerney? What about agreeing that officers would do things without consulting them? I don't think anyone could appreciate the true nature of the exec unless you are directly involved or witness it at first hand level from being on committees and boards.

I think that the new executive will be very good and functional with a good Union structure now in place. The new president has the experience and integrity and if hustings is anything to go by - he will be a welcomed breath of fresh air, the community officer has had experience with sitting on committees and having been involved in RAG. The Clubs and Socs officer has first hand experience of helping in the union especially with dragonslayers etc, McGib has a wealth of experience and Samantha has first hand knowledge of what it is like to be an international student at QUB. Education officer...no comment. Fiona Kidd will have good campaigning techniques but may lack in the communications department but it is all a learning experience.

Here's to the new exec (well most of them!) Best of luck!

@ Ho Chi Mimh says:

Oh do ya now, well good for you.

From memory though the GAA/LAW ticket have been doing a fairly good gob of running the union into the ground for as long as they've been in power.

Their sabbatical officers have been more concerned with socializing at the bot than earning their pay. The fact that the PRP scheme would mean they'd have to do work to earn money certainly put the fear of god into them judging from some of their reactions to it especially calling Shane Brogan a dictator.

"I'll have to do work ta ern me money, but I just want ta have the craic hi"

The GAA/Law ticket didn't represent the majority of students just those who were most vocal, those with the most vested interest in keeping power and those who felt a sense of entitlement to certain positions.

As another commenter has said "the masses have spoken and they make sense" and despite some very dirty politics and now evidence of fraud they still lost.

This election has been the best thing to happen to student politics in a long time. Even if the current change only lasts one year the good work that this executive will achieve will be worth it.

Here, i can say with complete confidence and total assurance that TEAM CRITCHLOW did certainly NOT take part in any such thing. These accusations are certainly not true within this camp as we believe in honesty and integrity.

Look forward to seeing next years executive run the union into the ground! At least we will have a decent president this year, to quote a few Shane brogan the "dictator."

Then the LAW/GAA vote will return to power as they rightfully should given how they represent a large number of students.

QUB ABU

it says it all that nobody is really surprised by this. the gaa/law canvassers, louts that they are, ran such a dirty campaign - "supervising" people voting, being caught ripping down opponent's posters, stealing a banner from the front of the union.. this is just yet another element of their foul play. and yet, they still lost. priceless.

Your QOL details are the same as your QUB-issued personal ATHENS Account details. It is definitely an offence to hand out dstails of the latter. A years subscription to all them journals and databases would cost thousands of pounds and these guys just hand out their passwords??

Wee Pete..don't you see..it doesn't matter if both sides sent the text..its the principle of the text lad!!!
If you want to exercise your voting right, you will ultimately make the time to do so yourself! Its that whole 'individual making an informed decison' lark that you might be familiar with!
While the canvasers played a blinder with the 'we get that ur busy, and we care so much about you and dont want to hassle you so we'll vote for you cause we are sooo helpful and just wana make things convenient for you then tuck u in and make you a cup of tea' and such other political stylings, what they are really saying is ' we aren't bothered about earning your vote or what you think. We realise it will take 2 mins to do but we don't want you to look at our questionable policies so just give us your vote you faceless moron!'

So ultimately..viva la revolucion!!

Why am I not surprised...