The Gown Student Newspaper at Queen's University Belfast

@ Sour Grapes

I have no love for the Chuckle Brothers. Also "abundance" and "plenty" are synonyms. In fact the sentence would work perfectly well as "Throw enough shit at a wall and some of it is bound to stick, and what you have in plenty is an abundance of shit."

@ litespark

If you don't want us to mention Manchester why did you see fit to bring it into the conversation?

@Litespark

You came on and criticised The Gown as not being relevant to you. It's difficult to please 25,000 students in one condensed paper. You held up the Manchester Uni 'newspaper' as an example of how you like your media.

Since their newspaper is edited by a paid sabbatical officer, can you really expect it to scrutinize itself. There's as much chance in it doing that than a Govt Press Office criticising Gordan Brown.

You are right in that most student's have no idea about who runs their union or union politics. The Gown might agree, but views this as a bad thing. Nobody else is in a position to write what The Gown does, this is the benefit of an independent newspaper.

Once again if you don't like the direction, why not apply for an editorial position, or would that be too much like actually putting money where your mouth is? Better to sit back and ridicule those who volunteer thanklessly with their time and effort. But don't sit there and not expect anyone to react when you do attack The Gown.

@unknownmale

Still trying to discredit Brogan then, good stuff.

He's the big bad boogieman you can focus all your frustration on, just keep up the Lilly/Duffy party line there.

Throw enough shit at a wall and some of it is bound to stick, and what you have in abundance is plenty of shit.

I expressed the views of a number of my friends and fellow students who are not from Northern Ireland. I suppose I should have expected the reaction ‘you don’t know what you are talking about’. Obviously you are right, I will not comment further.

Thank you for putting me in my place and for stating you know (categorically) where I used to study in Manchester. To use a phrase that I have heard over here I presume the Gown ‘will not go away you know’ Like most students I will not know or care. To Catherine best of luck, to the rest of you… enjoy the navel gazing

@ litespark

if you truly want to read a rag then you should pick up a copy of the SU Mag or read some of the self-absorbed nonsense that Shane Brogan has wrote about himself on www.qubsu.org. That aside I asume that when you mention Manchester that you are reffering to Student Direct? http://www.umsu.manchester.ac.uk/activities/studen...
I believe it best correlates with the SU Mag which I have already called a rag.

You don't take any sort of interest in The Gown... therefore you wouldn't know that The Gown was originally set up in 1955 to hold the council and exec committee to account. It is not an "in-house rag." The Gown addresses many different student issues and if there are certain events in the Student's Union worth reporting, then it is The Gown's job to do so.

As much as you are entitled to your own opinion your sarcasm is unnecessary. The Gown team work extremely hard to maintain an excellent standard of journalism. Calling it an "in-house" rag is just rude.

"How inclusive!" - The Gown try their very best to offer something for everyone in both the newspaper and website. Twisting words is also unnecessary.

@ hmm... says 'you really can’t possibly comment'
@ What a tool says: your ignorance astounds me.

I am a student not involved in the union or gown so i can't comment and i am ignorant?? Does this also apply to the vast majority of students who didn't vote in the elections.

What a nice bunch of people you are. How inclusive!

The truth of the matter is that students can't (or shouldn't be able to) just take up whole areas of the Holylands to party on the streets! Especially when there are resident's living nearby.

Cars couldn't even get drive in or out of Holylands due to glass all over the roads! Ok it's good craic... but it is also ridiculous!

There were many disturbances this year including several arrests that were made.

Also @ Litespark... "I don’t know who the student officers are, i don’t care who Mr Dodge is"

Then you really can't possibly comment! Your ignorance is revolting.

@ unknownmale

I'm talking about the semi-final. Y'know, last kick of the game. That was '05. I don't know why that stands out for me more than the final, it just does. Especially after the way the Ulster final replay went that year. Anyway.

Ahh Litespark, your ignorance astounds me.

I know the paper you're talking about- The 'newspaper' is the official university and students' union publication. Their editor works full time as a sabbatical officer.

The Gown is completely different as it is independent, both editorially and financially, from Queen's.

@ litespark

I appreciate you taking the time and effort to register your views. I would be interested to know whether the newspaper in Manchester that you speak about is independently financed, and whether or not it is completely run by student volunteers. If it is, then The Gown is certainly a humble offering in comparison. However, I refute your comments about The Gown's content entirely. I would be grateful if you would direct me to instances where The Gown has unfairly "slagged" officers, and unfairly had a go at staff.

I look forward to your response.

Catherine Wylie
Editor

@Litespark

There are countless publications out there that cover "national and international issues".

Just because you have no interest in the STUDENTS union or the positions of office that STUDENTS elect, perhaps says more about your interest in who represents you.

The Gown seems to be the only institution in a position to hold the unelected management committee and sabbatical officers to account.

The disinterest of you and your friends in democracy and the free press doesn't bode well for our generation.

The Gown is a free publication made by volunteer students who are proactive in their belief in a student press and democratic accountability. If you're not happy with the content, perhaps you and other literary critics above should put their money where their mouths are and submit articles you find of fitting interest.

i used to go to Uni in Manchester. Their newspaper, all 26 pages, was full of articles about student issues, national and international issues. Since i came to Belfast i have picked up a copy of the Gown. I don't know who the student officers are, i don't care who Mr Dodge is, all i know is that gown seems be some in-house rag used to slag off the officers and have a go at staff. Its not for me or any of my friends. Would i miss it if its wrapped up? Nope, would save some trees which would make me happier

@ John B. Dick

First of all I would like to thank you for your continued interest in The Gown website. I have enjoyed reading all your offerings of late. The article written by myself and Brendan is completely factual. We were in the Holylands all day, from lunchtime until after 9.30pm, only leaving to write up the three articles for the website. I have no qualms about saying that the above article is 100% factual. I am aware that other media outlets' coverage of the Holylands differs from ours, and I have contacted one journalist in particular who stated that events passed off peacefully to ask whether or not she was there. Palestine Street from 7.30pm was NOT peaceful, and officials DID look on helplessly. I spent most of my time from about 7.30 regularly speaking to officials from the Union and University, and I can assure you that they were very concerned with what was going on. I would also like to remind you that a mob, by definition, is a disorderly crowd. Your point about objectivity is one which I don't understand. As I have said, I was there the whole day and these articles are merely an observer's account of what occurred. I am well aware that in comparison to last year's debacle that this year in the Holylands wasn't as problematic at all. However, these articles weren't intended to be comparison pieces. As some people have commented here, although there were no serious problems on the day, it's still not acceptable that such a big crowd is allowed to gather and behave in this way. I hope your enthusiastic interest in The Gown continues.

Catherine Wylie
Editor

Just a point about applying for the editorial team next year:

By having an open application process, we are encouraging students from across the spectrum to get involved in a worthwhile opportunity at Queen's.

If we were to have a similar selection method to SU clubs and societies, we would have far less applicants to choose from, and the possibility that it would all descend into a mere popularity contest.

Have a look at the application form: We ask for evidence of skills and experience, and information in order to assemble a team of volunteers from different backgrounds and experiences at QUB, in order to best cover the views and interests of students.

I'd encourage everyone from all backgrounds to apply, regardless of whether you have been involved so far this year.

Brendan Hughes
advertising@thegown.org.uk

People need to wise up a good bit.

Catherine and Brendan are gearing up for a nice career as tabloid hacks. This article is dripping in sensationalism. For me, now, it's not the lack of facts that's a bother. It's the snide tone of their writing. They're not impressive writers. "Police and University officials looked on helplessly as young people sang and danced along with music blaring from one of the houses." This actually sounds quite comical, however, I'm sure that wasn't the intention. Their words are loaded, using the word "mob" is an example. Culturally, we'll see a "mob" in a negative way (far removed from the "revellers" of the previous paragraph).

I'm surprised that Catherine hasn't learnt from her English course that synonym after synonym isn't a clever tactic. A thesaurus will change your meaning.

Lorcan can write. Very very well. He writes in a way that a journalist should write, not in the way a journalist thinks that they should write.

It's quite sad to see that the current editor is running something which has the potential to be beautiful into the ground. I'm sure she'll post on here stating that there was a record number of hits to this site yesterday. The Sun is the highest selling newspaper in the UK. It's great, isn't it?

I think that a certain amount of decorum is needed if you're going to boast about a rich history and the importance of an autonomous newspaper. A little bit of objectivity would go a long way. The Gown could serve its purpose incredibly well, but it seems sensationalism will win.

It's also a bit sad that there's an application process for editorial positions. It'll ensure that the same opinions are standing-points are kept. The independent status leaves a sinister taste in your mouth when you compare this application process to the democratic processes of a regular club or society.

Adam, I dont understand.

There is no real harm caused in St Patricks day and yet you see the need to criticise the people in the holylands for their antics. It was all light hearted craic. If you dont like it there is no real point criticising it whenever it will go on like this every year. :D

by the way, has no one else noticed that the clown in the Celtic shirt-come-balaclava (above) has his own name tatooed on his arm?

@ Lorcan

"I love GAA, I’m proud of my heritage, and I can think of few moments in my life of more pure, delirious joy than watching Peter Canavan’s winning point against Armagh from the Cusack stand in ‘05. That’s me."

You'll find that was in 2003, were you extremely late that day?

Tyrone played Kerry in the 2005 All-Ireland Final, they played Armagh in 2003. Surely if this event stood out so much in your life you would recall details as important as, oh I don't know, the year your county won their first all-Ireland or who they were playing in 2005.

@ Rear Mudguard

"To the long term residents, these ‘partying students’ are as welcome as having an Orange parade forced into your neighbourhood. You should all be proud of yourselves – a credit to Ireland."

Surely if you were a member of the Orange Order having an Orange parade forced through your area would be both convienient and welcome?

I have to agree with Lorcan above. I have read all editions of The Gown this year, every Monday fortnight without fail, and the comment made by 'My2cents' has angered me. I would doubt very much that you are informed enough to comment on The Gown at all, or call it a mickey mouse rag, as you say you are not a student in Belfast. Lorcan has said that the article writers spent the day in the Holylands. I see that there are three reports up which depict the entire day. Along with others on here, I noticed the lack of coverage given to the Holylands this 17th March in the media. To be honest, I don't see what's wrong with this article, or why anyone would complain about it being sensationalist. Students definitely have no call to complain as it says at the start that it was thought the house where the music came from wasn't a student house.

@ Metallica:

"disorder" does not mean a riot. "peaceful" is not neccessarily an absence of direct confrontation. Catherine & Brendan, unlike other media, were there for long stetches of the day, and the pieces are sober (literally) observations of what went on.

N. Donnelly sums it up best on here:

"The fact that it wasn’t as bad as last year doesn’t make it alright. I’ve lived in the Holyland and spent a great St Patricks day there a few years ago, but in my opinion it goes beyond fun when people are smashing glass on the street, deliberately triying to provoke the police and using the area as their own personal wrecking space. The reality is that far too many temporary residents of the Holyland, and their friends down for the day, believe they have free reign to do as they please"

@My2Cents:

"Never have I read such sanctimonious drivel in all my life" - you musn't read much.

I'm getting more and more sick of the whinging, ridiculous paranoia on the part of self-proclaimed GAA types on here. Wah wah bias wah. Come on. We played a reasonably large part in the near-unseating of a unionist council speaker, and I don't hear unionist students calling me sectarian, do I? Jesus.

I love GAA, I'm proud of my heritage, and I can think of few moments in my life of more pure, delirious joy than watching Peter Canavan's winning point against Armagh from the Cusack stand in '05. That's me.

That doesn't mean I have to fall into line behind every feckless goon draped in a tricolour made in China, bawling out hackneyed rebel songs on the one day a year he makes a point of giving a shite. Especially when these goons, when sober (and with the 4-5 Pogues songs lying dormant again on the iPod for another year) turn out to be limp-wristed, entitled, middle-class pseudo-Shinners, seeing "discrimination" and "agendas" where there aren't any.

St. Patrick's Day, as celebrated in the Holyland, is not in any meaningful way 'Catholic' or even republican. It's a pathetically obnoxious bout of thoughtless, booze-sodden jingoism, "riot" or no riot. Picture this: move this year's scenes to Burnley or Manchester, and make the flags English, not Irish. We'd all think that to be idiotic, Brits-on-tour drunken quasi-BNP loutery, wouldn't we?

Makes me sick.

The Gown does not "enjoy fabrication", although I appreciate your remarks nonetheless. Anyone on Palestine Street from 7.30pm could not seriously describe it as "peaceful".

Catherine Wylie
Editor

Disorder?

I thought it was peaceful.

Other media reports said it was peaceful.

The Gown enjoy reporting fabrication.

"Why can’t we have a national day to celebrate being Northern Irish, something that both Nationalists and Unionists can enjoy"

Jezzzzus lad, make sense.

Being a NATIONALIST means your NATIONALITY is IRISH. Having a day to celebrate being NORTHERN IRISH for nationalists would be like celebrating the plantation of Ulster.

In celebratory terms this is comparable to celebrating on the aniversary of an abortion as opposed to celebrating on the aniversary of a birth.

I saw Brendan down in the holylands when he was reporting. Spent most of the day down there and Damn he was sober! That's dedication for you.

The Palestine street incident was the only big one. Everyone else was sitting on their own property either in their gardens or inside their house having a drink. And there's nothing wrong with doing that. They were approachable and of course merry!

Those of you that are talking about songs, it's all in good spirits. I know a few Protestant boys and girls that were down in the area, they knew this and they found our singing really amusing. They even complained that we should sing Anthenry more often as it was the only song they could sing along with! Suspend your own sectarianism for a moment and you'd see it's just people having a laugh, not meaning any real harm.

I don't however think that Laura Hawthorne's efforts or anybody elses for that matter had much affect on what the students in the holylands area did. It didn't affect my decision, as a matter of fact I'm not even sure what her efforts might have been?

I believe people didn't want to recreate the same press coverage as last year so more of the parties like my own, happened indoors. New students to the area may also have been afraid for their houses and thus were reluctant to host their own party and instead went to another person, prehaps from a different area's party.

I noticed there was a lot of glass the next day, most people had enough snese to move their cars before St Pat's. It's a credit to the council that they had it all cleared by that evening. Even more so that they lifted the bag of rubbish I'd collected from my garden saving me the hassle of doing so later. A plesant surprise on returning from class. :D

@ John B. Dick
"It might’ve been illegal to drink in public, but it looks like fun. Proper fun."
There's no denying fun was had by many, or the point that people have a right to assemble, but that defence is wafer thin to say the least. The fact that it wasn't as bad as last year doesn't make it alright. I've lived in the Holyland and spent a great St Patricks day there a few years ago, but in my opinion it goes beyond fun when people are smashing glass on the street, deliberately triying to provoke the police and using the area as their own personal wrecking space. The reality is that far too many temporary residents of the Holyland, and their friends down for the day, believe they have free reign to do as they please and frankly it embarasses me to be from "the country" and living in Belfast.

go away and be sound will you

I was in the holyland on St paddy's day,and the behaviour was "disorderly". There's no doubt about that! If what occurred on Palestine Street took place on a street in Limivady or Omagh...there would be some serious talk about it. It was grand craic surely because there was no chance really of anyone getting into trouble as there was no serious incidents...but it was disorderly. That is exactly how it would be described. Disorderly.

Ever walk past a shop and the headline of a tabloid newspaper grabs your attention? You walk away feeling guilty and dirty that you actually read it? Well this article makes me feel like that. Never have I read such sanctimonious drivel in all my life. I am not a student in Belfast but was over visiting friends on Wednesday and I have to say it was the best St. Paddys day I have had for a long time. Everyone was in high spirits, the Police where conversing with us and there were no negative vibes about the day at all. Of course you will always get one or 2 who take things too far but that is to be expected.
I took a drive around the Holylands yesterday afternoon to 'survey the damage' so to speak and was pleasantly surprised to see it was very minimal. Catherine, I know happen to have a decent career in journalism paved out for yourself, so don't cheapen yourself with this tabloid-esque reporting. Unfortunately we live in a media driven culture where the 'sheep' are unable to think for themselves, so you have a responsibility that goes further than some mickey mouse student rag.

@jimmybullard: Fair play to ya big man, thats what its all about.

Go raibh mile maith agat

is this what this discussion has degenerated into? the familiar Northern Ireland bigoted tripe? i'm not going to make an outrageous statement like "i'm sure there were just as many protestants as catholics in the holylands on wednesday". but you can be certain of this, there were protestants there and I'm sure that many were drinking on the street.

I happen to know the owner of the confiscated guitar and amp and can safely say that he is one of the most apolitical people i have ever met.

A lot of people are glossing over the issue here, the residents would have been just as pissed off, more so perhaps even, if the hoodlums had been signing Lady Gaga songs.

Its not WHAT they were signing - its THAT they were signing. Do you think there would be anymore complaints than there already are say for examples if students were to run around the Holylands at 4am screaming the text of the Good Friday Agreement verbatim than shouting "Up the 'RA!". No.

I agree with 'Unknown male'. I know a few members of The Gown very well, and a couple of them have been in my group of best friends since school. I'm sure The Gown team won't mind me saying that all contributors come from different backgrounds. I find it rather funny that people have brought this issue up, as Catherine, despite recent allegations of GAA bashing and unfair reporting of the Holylands, has loved Gaelic football since forever and could probably beat a fair few GAA heads in a GAA quiz!

Queens_student527, I was at the MacRory Final and didn't sing the Republic of Ireland's anthem (see what I did there?) even though I know all the words - it's a disgusting song, same as Generic Non-Existant Diety save the Unelected Unaccountable Tax-Recieving Sponge.

On that note, I doubt many even know the words of Amhrán na bhFiann, and I doubt even moreso that those that do know the words know what they mean i mBéarla.

I would appreciate being directed to the "utter garbage" and I would also like to be pointed in the direction of the stories which can be accurately described as "rumours and opinionated tripe".

Catherine Wylie
Editor

@ Barry chuckle himself

"I’ve only picked up the paper a handful of times over the past 2 years, and each time it has been filled with utter garbage."

What an informative comment you have made. Now, could I ask you to elaborate and give all of us examples of the "utter garbage"?

Was it the leak story which led to Lorcan Mullen writing an article for The Guardian? Maybe it was the original and humorous story about Seamus Heaney not knowing that the Heaney was closed? Or was it the story in the latest edition highlighting the shortcomings of disability services at QUB? Maybe you're referring to all The Gown's updates on fees, ie. arguably THE key student issue of the moment?

You're talking shit.

@ Queens_student527

"The Gown need to have a look at how impartial, or not, some of their reporters are."

You should check on the community background of the people you make such bigoted statements about before making them.

@1Queens_student527

Maybe because it's not the national anthem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and NI (where the Holyland is) and it could be considered triumphalism and offensive to some? St.Patricks day should be inclusive for everyone and anything that might make people feel uncomfortable should be avoided. God save the queen is the anthem of NI - how would you feel if it was sung on Paddy's day?

A bit of tact is all that is needed. I am proud to celebrate being irish 365 days of the year. I don't need to stick on a celtic jersey and sing the Irish anthem (most don't even know the words) while drinking cider to prove it to anyone. Grow up!

It may be 'AN IRISH NATIONAL HOLIDAY', but we live in Northern Ireland, why can't we have a national day to celebrate being Northern Irish, something that both Nationalists and Unionists can enjoy, instead of having the two seperate St Paddy's and 12th July. A day everyone can get behind and not be linked to secterian opinions/issues.

The Gown should be ashamed of their report into the alleged "misconduct" in the holylands. From 1st hand experience I can say the Street party was all in good spirit. Also, explain why people shouldn't sing the Irish national anthem on St.Patricks day, of all days, AN IRISH NATIONAL HOLIDAY?

The Gown need to have a look at how impartial, or not, some of their reporters are.

@ "chuckling but not a chuckle brother",

I've only picked up the paper a handful of times over the past 2 years, and each time it has been filled with utter garbage, even the parts that actually do have some facts, figures or sources to back them up (IE: the 1-2% of it). It's all rumours and highly opinionated tripe. Makes even the Daily Mail look trustworthy and respectable.

Pretty incredible that some students are congratulating themselves for their conduct in the Holylands on St Patrick's Day.

This is like English football hooligans asking for us to say 'thank you' to them, because they haven't wrecking a city centre square in Brussels.

There is a partial solution to this situation - the introduction of temporarary legislation banning the outdoor consumption of alcohol on any number of named streets in the Holylands area within a defined period of time during March, with rigid enforcement.

@ qubstudent

I'd doubt if you are Gown's target audience. Have you read the newspaper this year? Have you read all the website updates? If you have then I don't think you would call The Gown "complete and utter balls". That is an insult of the highest order to all those involved and certainly now in the context of the ban on Gown which is reminiscent of the Bolsheviks behaviour in Russia. I certainly hope that your views are not echoed by many QUB students, and if they are then I have to say that I am ashamed to be affiliated with the university.

The Gown are to be commended on their coverage, unlike other news outlets who iced coffee points out merely skims over events in the Holylands.

No wonder the Gown gets banned! Its complete and utter trash like this that shoes that Wylie and Hughes are ultimate wind up merchants!

The fact everything was better was down to the students, not the police! Think anyone who was actually in the holylands last year would have known about the polices heavy handed tactics

anyway, moral is, the gown is complete and utter balls!

Without the spinal tap pair then none of us would know anything about howthe day went in the Holylands so I'm very glad that Catherine and Brendan covered it via this site and the gown twitter, spinal tap or no spinal tap. I took a dander down to the area for about half an hour when my mate txt me to say that Palestine Street was pretty crazy. To be fair, this article pretty much states the facts. Although there were no "riots" or "violence", there is no doubt that Palestine Street was extremely disorderly, and all in all, everyone present was behaving unacceptably. Had the police done anything like last year, I'd say 2010 would have surpassed 2009. If look on any of the QUB/Union/police officials' faces were anything to go by, coupled with their numerous "team talks", I'd say they'd all agree that what was happening didn't fall within the usual description of simply having the craic. The problem isn't the fault of the universities or the police though, it is simply the fact that there are too many HMOs in a concentrated area, and all the student residents invite too many friends from home. This results in raucous activity which the permanent residents will forever complain about. It's a situation which appears to have no remedy.

@ Eddie V

"Compare it to the scenes in Stranmillis village"

I think you mean Stranmillis Road, not many students live in Stranmillis Village

im a 50 year old resident of the holylands and it was one of my favourite experiences..... obviously since last years party. roll on st paddys 2011. the singing was fantastic. can i get my guitar and amp back please? fermanagh people make the world go round.....literally

@John RE:

"Many houses had an open-door policy all day, friendships were made with neighbours and at one point I was sitting on a sofa in a garden with about 14 people – many of whom I had never met before – watching football on a TV and having a few drinks while the party went on around us. But what could be more anti-social and disgraceful I suppose…"

That's only one side to the argument. You may have been having a civil day, but what about those who go out of their way to be obnoxious and a disturbance? Those who scream and roar into the small hours?

I'm sick of hearing this "sure the residents should be moved away". The area happens to be highly populated with students due to landlords buying up property and renting it out. A large majority of the students in the Holylands really have no respect for the place. Compare it to the scenes in Stranmillis village

I spent a couple of hours in the Holylands area yesterday - lots of street drinking, music blasting from houses, beery, lairy, intimidating, disgraceful. To the long term residents, these 'partying students' are as welcome as having an Orange parade forced into your neighbourhood. You should all be proud of yourselves - a credit to Ireland.

All: As a resident of the HOLYLAND, can we all try to be accurate when describing this area - it is NOT and never has been the HOLYLANDS!

These photographs are absolutely disgusting. I have always lived in the holyland (25 years) and also completed a 4 year university degree and these scenes are abominable. My extended family and I have lived here as living within a student population has always meant living in a dynamic, progressive atmosphere and environment. I refuse to be intimidated or alleged or 'ruining the craic' by backwards idiots.

I'll be 'celebrating' with my friends in Tyrone next year....

"Motorists attempted to dodge broken glass on the road, but many onlookers watched as tyres were punctured." - I'd like to see some substantiation for that claim. What were all these supposed tyres made of? Balloons?