The Gown Student Newspaper at Queen's University Belfast

so the annual fund can't fund childcare for students but it can fund a. A TV station that no one needs or wants and b. Orange Order day trips?

Hey there party people
Firstly may I say that not only as a former member of the RAG but also of QR, I know first hand the amount of work which goes into preparing a "radio" show - secondly I agree with the sentiments expressed in the above article. The RAG ( a society which actually helps not just students and their "experiences" but local charities) recieved the princely sum of £0 from the annual fund this year. The money which is used by the RAG to hold and advertise the year long events had to be taken from their bottom line - money which could be used for charity. The fab tee-shirts that were used in the pub crawls this year were all paid for from the £5 paid by the student. THIS not only AFFECTS Students pockets but also Charities who many without the money given to them from RAG would cease to operate.

@Notifications are getting out of hand now.

No worries, so who wants to talk about SUTV?

Can the people on here please stick to commenting about the actual sunject of the article? I'm all for opne debate, but continually getting notified about an opinion piece that I'm quite interested in, only to find that the persons involved are talking about something else, is getting quite frustrating.

Many thanks!

Annual fund insider - do you actually know how the childcare system works? It needs to have plenty of lecturers and staff paying very good money to look after their children, as the extra that they pay is pumped straight back into subsidising the student rate.

If you gave students entirely top priority (which is arguably unfair anyway, as access to childcare is a staff benefit as much as it is a student one) then the creches would run out of money very quickly!

@anonymous

I don't think the Annual fund can really support childcare places so your argument isn't that valid here. I agree there are a shortage of spaces for parents but you should fight against the university to get provisions for students rather than lecturers who avail of the service

Very sad, this is the actual short fall in monies that they need to provide the required number of free creche places for student mothers. Mature students and students with children have long been ignored in the funding bubble as they're not glamerous but this is leading more and more to student poverty and children living in very difficult circumstances. I suggest a rethink

J.B. Dick ole boy!

It appears you have missed my tutor's.
Clothes horses' argument may have been be bad or indeed refuted by your retort. However it is not deductively invalid because of that (as you suggested). Furthermore it was more of a rhetorical question than an argument.

We have to police the mincers of terminology!
Sorry to correct you!
Yours humbly
Plato (the second greatest philosopher ever!)

It appears that you have missed my point.

http://yourargumentisinvalid.com/user/379

I don't mince my words.

J.B. Dick ole boy!

It appears you have mixed up validity and truth.
An argument can be valid but remain true.
Sorry to correct you!
Yours humbly

Socrates (the greatest philosopher ever!)

The rowing club have already been filmed.

Your argument is invalid.

How will other clubs and socs benefit? Tjat makes me laugh. Will the fencing crowd and the rowers and the dragonslayers and the chess players want to film themselves all of a sudden? Also, if SUTV is to convey messages to the student body for various clubs then God help us. Send all student emails. DUH. That way the message will be conveyed perfectly and it won't cost anything. This is such a waste of money. I'm surprised outside media haven't picked up on it. The Gown's April Fool story was mint!

Ryan, why would anyone want to listen to music on a Queens student radio show? Why not just use spotify it's far handier.

The only future I can see for a Queens based online radio program is in commentary and discussion, podcasts and youtube videos would be a better medium for it as well rather than a 24/7 radio show.

Someone above said your peak listenership is less than 300? Something just isn't working and it's my opinion that a convential radio show just is behind the times.

@ Belfast Holylands

What about licensing and royalty payments? Equipment maintenance? Software licenses? Advertising?

For the amount of bandwidth used by an online radio stream, £20/month is laughably low!

Yes, you could in theory record shows with a few cheap microphones and some man-power. But they would sound rubbish, and the record companies would be down upon you like a ton of bricks should you decide to use any music that isn't Creative Commons!

Total waste of money, no-one will ever watch it just as virtually no-one listens to Queens radio.

Neither should get money in my opinion. There's really no excuse why either venture should need much money at all if they are online only.

To get a site up and running costs £20/month max and is easy to set up. To record 'shows' should cost no-more than a few cheap microphones and a some man-power.

i think the time has come perhaps to reveal my true identity. I am not Brendan Hughes. I am Tiarnán Millar. I realise that this name does not mean a lot to many people, but anyone who knows me will know that yes i am likely to admit to being bitter and twisted. I was a DC for two and a half years and did the odd portering shift on the front desk in the Union. If you've ever been thrown out of the union at night and on some occasions during the day it was probably me that did it. So I think you all owe Brendan an apology.

lol. I think we all know what Gareth McGreevy has been doing this past few days! He hasn't been campaigning anyway that's for sure! "Can you go on to the gown website and vote in that poll?" LOL!
Funny how one person's opinion can rub so many people up the wrong way. Also, why has QR hogged this thread. Talk about the tele. Sure there'll be no radio in a few years anyway. It's all about TV, and Gareth knows it. Show business. That's where it's at. Long live The Gown and its ability to make people go mental about things! Freakin love the way poll has went. Funny as f**k. Does McGreevy not realise how obvious it is?!

Feel sorry for brendan, look at the gown poll

Sorry Brendy, I'm not going to answer your question. Every time I give you a reply you do nothing but make uninformed comments about my staff, make irrational statements and frankly this argument is tired. I'm responsible to the members of QR, not you. If you feel so strongly about it, write a piece and interview me, with facts and figures at your disposal.

If you are looking to run a piece, drop a line to the Annual Fund and pick up a copy of the 10K application we applied for.

The other 20K I'd spend on cigars, hookers and fine whiskey.

you have failed to answer my question. What could Queen's Radio do with £30k?

I think this will be my last post here, unknownmale (ironic, given that everyone knows who he is), has shown a level of immaturity I would have thought was beneath the Gown; it is certainly not a fair reflection of their other writers.

QR is doing tremendous work, and it seems overly convenient that unknownmale has never heard of the radio stations that Ryan listed. For him to further add to his immaturity and lack of manners by claiming Ryan is on an ego trip is ridiculous. He gave his position within QR, showing honesty, something that you have not shown the courage to do, even when you have been exposed.

Perhaps the only person on an ego trip here is the author who is continually commenting on his own article, while lacking the objectivity to accept the viewpoint of those that are better-informed.

Ryan is our Head of Tech, selected by the committee to fulfil that role. There was a full team at the start of the year, but as they are working on various doctorates and masters, they have had to leave.

oh and Ryan, according to Dave Verner you're not the head tech guy, you're the only tech guy. So get off your ego trip

actually i think you're being pretty ignorant. You should perhaps read my previous posts properly. Watch this.

Dave, if the union gave Queen's Radio £30k what could you do with it?

Unknown male, wind your neck in! You are one of the most ignorant people that has ever graced this website!

They ARE a radio station!!! It's like saying the gown isn't a newspaper...actually maybe not 'cause that is debatable. More like a Slabberpaper then you got it! QR Keep it going and don't let a narrow minded *swear word* tell you any different. The amount of work you all do in QR is tremendous

I'm getting very sick of repeating myself.

IT'S NOT A RADIO STATION IF YOU CAN'T HEAR IT ON THE RADIO!

Kawaii-radio, Vombat Radio and FTP Radio, never heard of them. Here is a list of some Radio Stations I have heard of

Downtown Radio - available on a radio
Citybeat - available on a radio
Radio 1 - available on a radio
2FM - available on a radio
Radio 2 - available on a radio
Cool FM - available on a radio

Notice a trend here? You're not a radio station. You're an online media outlet.

I can't see why you think it would be stupid to change the name because you'd certainly be complying with the Trade Descriptions Act.

As I outlined above my plan to start my own radio station gives it as much right to call itself a radio station as QR.

So tell me, what's your definition of a Radio Station?

So

Unknown male, we all know who you are as well! You were seen posting the other day by my friend :o)

@ unknownmale

I'm the head tech guy for QR. I can tell you right now that it is not feasible for us to broadcast on FM. Even if we were given an FM transmitter right now, it would not be possible. The monthly OFCOM license fee would destroy us financially as that is around £2000 a month (that is for a 28 day RSL. QR would not qualify for a community license), before we even came to PPL, PRS and maintenance costs. Putting finance aside, it is not currently possible to get an RSL in both the South Belfast area, or in Northern Ireland as a whole currently. The last time OFCOM released spectrum in the FM area was a couple of years ago, and it's currently saturated in this area.

Now before you suggest DAB, that's even more ridiculous. To broadcast on DAB you need to purchase time on a multiplex. There is currently only one multiplex operator in Northern Ireland, and they are also fully booked. Even if they had space, it still would be unfeasable as the costs on DAB are over £10,000 a month!

Dave has already gone into the costs associated with Medium Wave, and why we dropped it at the beginning of this academic year (although it was pretty unstable beforehand).

Dave's comment that he could have an iPhone app for £2000 is just an example of what we can spend the amount saved by not having a MW transmitter on. In reality, it'll be spent on things such as equipment maintenance, advertising, events, and other student society related costs.

Oh and by the way, rebranding to Queen's Internet Radio would be a very strange and in my opinion stupid thing to do. There are many internet only radio stations that brand themselves similar to ourselves, examples include Kawaii-radio, Vombat Radio and FTP Radio.

@ Dave V

"For £2000, we could have an app which allows iPhone user to listen to QR anywhere in the world!"

I have an app on my n96 that lets me listen to Queen's Radio right now.

Also I explained the conditions under which you would get my money. I wouldn't sponsor a kid who couldn't swim or ride a bike to do a triathalon

I'm going to point out a few things before this gets out of hand.

We have applied for an FM licence, but it's not a case of buy it and go. There is no room on the UK wide FM band for another NI licence, so even if we had the money, we couldn't get on FM.

The only other option would be to take a FM band that has limited service, i.e. 3 months at a time. This isn't a very cost effective or sustainable approach to what we do.

FM Transmitter, Upkeep, PPL, PRS, OFCOM licences, Servicing...all costs that are above our remit. We're talkings thousands upon thousands of pounds here. The licences for a restricted MW broadcast ran to over £1600. That's for a 5 mile radius!

You are also relying too much on the old measures of transmission. Internet Radio and Digital transmission is the way forward. Just look at the apps available for these new smart phones (which boggle my mind). For £2000, we could have an app which allows iPhone user to listen to QR anywhere in the world!

Acquiring an FM licence would be a rather daft measure at this point anyway, as in the next 5/6 years they are phasing in the digital cross over. We actually have a few guys looking into how we could output via Digital, but it's more complicated than I believe we have the staff for. Remember, QR only has one technical engineer and that poor bastard is over worked as it is fixing equipment.

This will be the last thing I add to this debate, hopefully get the discussion back on SU-TV. I have a station to go run!

If you do have any suggestions, or do want to make a donation, we'll happily take your money ;)

really? HAVE YOU ASKED THE UNION FOR A F***ING FM TRANSMITTER? That might be a good place to start.

And I'm quite aware of how you're stats line up against the rest of the UK. No one can listen to Queen's Radio, on a radio, therefor you have 0 radio listeners which is pretty poor for any radio station.

I tell you what. I'm going to start my own radio station, I'm going to get a guitar, even though I can't play, and frankly don't intend on playing it because no one will be listening to me (although that doesn't seem to bother Queen's Radio), I'm going to have guests come down and speak to me about current affairs, sports, movies etc. I'm even going to have an Ulster Scots hour, but i imagine that would only decrease the number of people listening. I'm going to do all this on the street outside the Union. Because according to your definitions radio no longer requires a radio.

Please go ahead and outline the things you've recieved. I imagine your list will start as so:

1. Radio Transmitter

Oh wait...

You haven't even bothered fundraising for an FM transmitter. I tell you what, if Queen's Radio can promise me that they'll start fundraising for a transmitter and that they'll have it one year from now I'll donate £150, how does that sound?

And Catherine Wylie knows who I am and as such will hold me to that.

@unknownmale
That QR isn't available on the radio at the minute is simply to maintain our ability to function, and to label us 'farcical' doesn't exactly sound like the language of someone who is apparently supportive of us. Also, attacking listenership (do you have any idea of how our listener numbers rack up with the rest of the U.K? Perhaps you should check before blithely throwing out a statistic like you know what you're talking about.)

Furthermore, anything which we've asked of the Union has been given to us, and so, to answer your question - Yes we are being fully supported and I'd be more than happy to outline everything which we've received.

Finally, your use of 'QIR' was very witty. Sincere congratulations.

Yes, this would please sir greatly.

What would please sir even more is if McGreevy actually got this SUTV idea out of his head. If it doesn't run Deal or No Deal and Hollyoaks no self respecting student is going to watch it.

Its going to be even harder to push than Queen's Internet Radio, see what I did there? At least you can have QIR (and again) open and listen to it while you're working away on your laptop. You'll actually have to set time aside to watch SUTV.

They were broadcasting on MW until last year. To my knowledge, Dave shut it down to save costs and help pull the station out of a considerable debt.

Internet Radio is the way forward...with tools such as iPlayer,iTunes,skyPlayer etc Perhaps they need to rebrand as QIR to please you good sir?

@ hypocrisy

If you were to READ my post again you would notice that I criticise Gareth McGreevy, not for his support of SUTV, but for how much this venture is supported in comparison to other societies.

I am critical the fact that Queen's Radio, whilst calling itself a radio station is not a radio station, mainly due to the fact that it is not available ON THE RADIO.

And I am supportive of Queen's Radio, a fact that you would have picked up on had you taken the time to READ my post.

@ Hypocrisy?

I absolutely see your point, and earlier in the year I very rarely responded to any comments on the website. However, in light of recent events with the Union, and due to my feelings on the whole situation, I feel at this point that it would be a mistake for me not to respond to criticism.

It's not one set of rules for me and one set of rules for everybody else. If The Gown is in favour of anything then it is debate and freedom of expression. Therefore I welcome all viewpoints and opinons on this website. As I said though, and as anyone will know who is informed regarding our situation with The Union, it is unrealistic to expect me not to respond.

Keep the comments coming and the debate raging. That is why The Gown is here.

Catherine Wylie
Editor

How come when the sabbs respond badly to criticism, they are maligned as being "wobbler-prone mammy's boys", whereas the latest response from the Gown editor is little better?

Obviously, the comments made by this "Journalist", character are extremely unjustified and unsupported. The Gown has carried out great work throughout the year and has always stayed within their legal boundaries, a testament to their grasp of journalism and what constitutes a breach of the law.

However, Catherine's response would suggest that there is one set of rules for her, and another for everyone else. That's not meant in a horrible way, more in a constructive sense. By responding in this way, she has given "Journalist" a platform, and rather inadvertently, a tad more credibility, as if his ill-informed comment deserves a response.

Also @unknownmale
Your comment smacks of the kind of lazy attitude that outsiders take to QR, a society that has the same budgetary restraints as any other society. Perhaps if you put your efforts to better use, like helping with the society, rather than taking anonymous potshots at it, you would be more pleased with it's output. As Dave says, on the budge available, QR is doing remarkably well.

@ Dave V

So it would be fair to say that Queen's Radio is not "effectively supported by SU to reach that [it's] potential"?

I'm just wondering why you would question this statement when facts and figures point towards it being true.

There are 25,000 students at Queen's yet you seem boastful of your "287" peak listeners. So effectively 1% of queen's students listen to Queen's Radio.

I don't doubt for one second that everyone at Queen's Radio works their hardest and I admire you for that but for all intents and purpose its not fulfilling its potential. If Gareth McGreevy can find £30,000 for a new media venture why can't he do the same for an existing one?

To call yourselves a radio station is farcical. Online media outlet would be a more appropriate title although I admit that it doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

@ Journalist

Bullshit? Bad reporting? Guess work? Unfounded opinion? Crap?

If you can bring examples from the newspaper or the website which fit the description of any of the above, then I will be more than willing to discuss these at length. However, your comment as "Journalist" is arguably a little suspect, and you offer no evidence to suggest that there is any truth in what you are saying. You point out that we have little to no training. Of course we don't. We are students studying full times degree courses in various subjects such as English, history, law, politics and accounting. Our time is divided between the newspaper and our studies. We are an amateur outfit that strives to make the most of what resources are available to us. Many of us will gain qualifications in journalism in the near future, and I have no doubt that many of us will go on to pursue careers in journalism.

Your criticisms of The Gown, which I have outlined at the opening of this comment, would be more appropriate in describing you and your seemingly uninformed opinion.

Catherine Wylie
Editor

Well done "Journalist" for pointing out that The Gown is an amateur, student publication. Your investigative journalism skills know no bounds.

Go on, I dare you to name these apparent instances of "bad report" and "complete guesswork and unfounded opinion".

While I personally disagree with this writer on the SUTV thing, his opinion seems perfectly acceptable and respectful.

The Gown seems to be a lot of bullsh*t most of the time in my honest opinion. Bad reporting at its best. If this were outside of the student union, there would be a few legal pursuits following a large number of their stories. A paper written by people with little or no training in journalism and the legal implications concerned with it.

Just because it's a student publication they seem to think they can get away with saying anything even though it's complete guess work and unfounded opinion.

Queens Students should be wary of this sort of crap and take it with a big pinch of salt.

What's cookin' unknownmale?

FM isn't possible on our budget or remit. An FM licence requires considerable set up costs and maintence, which as a society at Queen's we can't afford. If you can't hear us on MW it's probably because of the slight inconvience that we closed down the MW transmission to cut costs and plunged more money and effort into upgrading our digital output which, based on the reports from BBC, ITV and independant consultants has improved exponentially in the last 2 years.

I do agree that our advertising is horrible, however, we do what we can with the resouces available to us. Q-SUM kindly purchased us a huge banner which was to be displayed outside the Union and help promote the station, which was subsequently stolen. Designing suitable promotional material isn't as easy as snapping our fingers and expecting it to appear. Again this is an issue with resources and funding.

"How many people listen to Queen’s Radio? Honestly? A hardcore of what? maybe 50 regular listeners?"

Based on the new stats system which I call the "pingmaster5000" system, built in the spare time by one of the tech volunteers, we have on average at any one time, 40 people listening to any one show. In the last 2 months, the individual peak lister connection was 287 people.

For student radio, with a minimum operating budget, these are fantastic results when benchmarked to mainland UK station.

As station manager, I do what I can with what I've got. At the end of the day we are a socity dedicated to giving bradcasting opportunties to those who want it and I believe we do a great job of it.

If you want to help us, I'd sure lucky appreciate it, as would the 100 or so members who work hard to produce their content. Fresh ideas are never shunned at QR!

Pingmaster5000. Thanks to Jack Newhouse for the sweetness.

@ Dave Verner

" “All of them have great potential to provide comment and debate on events at Queen’s, and make a lasting impact on strengthening the campus community. Unfortunately, NONE of them are effectively supported by SU to reach that potential.”
Have you spoken to myself or any of the senior committee on how the SU has assisted us this year and previously?
I ask because I’ve never spoken to you and was wondering how you came to this conclusion that QR wasn’t being supported to it’s potential. "

How many people listen to Queen's Radio? Honestly?

A hardcore of what? maybe 50 regular listeners? your advertising is frankly horrible, your not available on FM and when I go to find the station on medium wave can i find it? no

@ It adds up to me...

"Looks like the gown want to hinder student experience…very mature."

Hello Gown hater. How are you? Why would one person's opinion mean that The Gown want to hinder student experience? That sentence was an epic fail on your part. Explain it...go on, I dare you.

The Gown will be appearing on today's edition of Union News at 4.30pm. Tune in via www.queensradio.org, launch the player and hear the discussion.

@barstaffer

It is all about giving people experience. There is nothing worse than reading an amateur student newspaper either but we all seem to do it. Fair play to the Union working for the students in this case. Looks like the gown want to hinder student experience...very mature

What good is state of the art equipment if they won't have an experienced person at the helm?

Amateur TV is horrible - without people knowing how to use the equipment and strict editorial guidelines it will be not worth watching at best and at worst a £30k laughing stock!

@ Sick of the squabbles:

Awk come on. Gown don't pick fights - Sabbs who aren't mature enough to deal with any level of reasonable criticism evidently immediately perceive any challenge as a personal assault. Then things get tetchy.

And with the "high standards" argument, grand, but Gown are also held to a very, very high standard. Not one outstanding substantive factual complaint, libel or other issue, and they're out of an office they've held for decades.

Sabbs shouldn't get a free pass on big issues just because they're likeable, if wobbler-prone mammy's boys.

Longevity mister, longevity. You missed the word software too, you can't use Final Cut on a Windows computer.

Maybe we could use these at the PEC for the trampolining club:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000OW7Y8...

Same deal as getting cheap equipment. Gareth's obviously put together a plan which fits the criteria of the Annual Fund application. It'd be different if it was Union money, but it's not.

He's done something impressive, get over yourselves.

so can someone please explain to myself the purpose of SUTV, as if I were a five year old?

This SU seems to be the theater of self interest.