The Gown Student Newspaper at Queen's University Belfast

Paul Lilly is a tremendously great man!

Because they were completely irrelevant and a lot of them were just speculative attacks on people whose religious identity is their own personal business.

Why were the comments about religion removed?

I am friendly with the chuckle brothers, but i cant defend them as the fact is they haven't done enough. However, what does the council ever really achieve that affects students on the ground level. VERY LITTLE. this is why most people don't care about this

All comments referring to religion have been removed.

The Gown team urges readers not to post any more comments like this as they will not be moderated.

Catherine Wylie
Editor

In am glad that the bias is becoming clear as well.

Why don't the lot of you just go back to the bot or rain - clearly you were happier there than in the SU.

Worst thing about this entire debacle is that the majority of people about campus really don't care altogether.
I believe Duffy and Lilly were both incompetent. Not saying they didn't do some of the things they were HIRED to do, but at the end of the day the just weren't up for the task for whatever reason. The fact that they had to round up all their mates to stop the motion just highlights their guilt.
Enough about Christianity, its besides the point. This was either a personal attack by the rest of the council, or Duffy and Lilly were terrible at certain things they were paid to do. Ask yourself, which is the most likely?
I'm essentially positive from my personal meetings with all of the involved that Duffy and Lilly are just a waste of money and shame on their lackeys who bailed them out, regardless of what clubs or courses they are members of.

exasperated at elms

Considering that only around 15% vote in the election with law nearly always being the highest turnout, then I see my point valid.

@ Responding to the Christian follower...please leave religion out of student politics, it may prove offensive to many people who read this

@Teetering on Tolitaltarian (sic)

On the dot. We may not like the way people vote or the reasons for it, or even that they turn up to vote on a single issue without engaging for the rest of the year, but fare thee well democracy and UK politics as a whole. Still, block voting for Li/ffy isn't dissimilar to block voting for pro-life in NUS/USI so you live by the the sword.

Just a random thought on a Monday morning.

J

I fail to see how Laura has been hypocritical in her behaviour. The only things that people can launch against her is that she behaved "unprofessionally" by publically speaking against her collegues and being responsible for division in the exec.

These accusations in themselves miss the mark of unprofessionallism entirely.
Firstly she made the comments publically in front of the body responsible for sabb scrutiny.
Secondly few councillors were qualified to speak on the work of Barry and Paul because they did not work with them for the year.
Thirdly if she believed that they were not working then for her not to say something was an act of injustice.
Forthly unity can only be found under truth and agreement any unity that has not these is false.
Fifthly Laura was one of the few councillors and sabb members who had the courage to get up and scrutinise. Indeed it is easy to see by the way they are being treated now why she was one of the few because the rest knew that the personal abuse suffered would be great.
Laura Did Good and the bullies in the GAA/Law Cliche did not like it.

@Christian Follower
The fact is that Lilly and Duffy didn't do their jobs properly. Obviouly their friends will defend them here, anyone would expect that much of their own friends, but it doesn't disguise the fact that they simply weren't up to the job.

And for all the jibes about Laura, on a personal note, she's never been anything less than extremely helpful and friendly when I've been in the exec office this year, which has been quite frequently. She seems to care about her job and from what I've seen, the hours she has put in have been absolutely above and beyond the call of duty.

@SU INSIDER2
You're being ridiculous. Stop being ridiculous. I mean really, just no need to be ridiculous. To describe Lorcan as being "someone's man" is ludicrous, especially since he's spent most of the year attacking the current sabbs. If he's defending Brogan, it's because he's done a good job, the same way he has attacked Lilly and Duffy for being pathetically inept at their jobs.

For all those who say that the "GAA/Law" name is a slander I say there is no smoke without fire. You should not question them being called this, but why such a term has become a slander in the first place. Clearly it represents something that students at QUB don't like.
Furthermore, it doesn't matter how much you complain about Laura/Shane/Gareth/Paul on here, they weren't the ones brought up by the council for not performing their position adequately. The council represetns the student body, at least those who actually care enough to put themselves forward to represent their fellow students. It is not the opinions of the ones who came to that meeting and voted to keep their mates in that matter, it is those who are there for every meeting who actually know what goes on in the executive. A vote of no confidence by them should be seen as a serious questioning of your conduct.

In a vote like this nobody wins, because the vote isn't a question of winning. it is a question of doing what is right for the student body as a whole.

Laura Hawthorne is one of the hardest working sabbatical officers. She has worked round the clock (up to 70 hr weeks - in nearly every weekend). She has done everything her job has required her to do.

She has fought legislation against those living in the holylands which have tried to kick all the students out of the area.

She has halved the number of complaints made against students in student areas (Holylands/Stranmillis/Lisburn) - meaning less cautions and fines against students.

She has always defended Students who haven't broken the law. (It is not in her remit to fight court cases - safer to leave that to the lawyers.)

Regarding the Gaming motion - this is something which she was acting on behalf of others (i.e. RAG) who are not elected to council. And it is to allow things like RAFFLES and - "how many sweeties in the jar" - competitions to allow RAG to raise money through these rather common ways for CHARITY.

To any Christian who brings her 'Christianity' into Question, she has kept her faith strong throughout the year, yeah - so maybe she hasn't been to as many CU meetings - doesn't mean she's any less of a Christian. She has always conducted herself in a more than admirable way, always putting other people's concerns before her own.
And do I really have to remind you of: "judge not lest ye be judged".

Are you really suggesting that it is un-christian to speak against someone who has lied continually in their reports - claiming they've done work which she has done? Surely it is more un-christian to not speak when a charity (which the SU is) is paying people who don't do work.

Regardless of what you think of the other sabbs - if you really believe Laura has not done any work, why don't you email any of the other sabbatical officers.
Why don't you ask Paul Courtney - one of the best VPCS in years:
su.vpcs@qub.ac.uk

Why not even ask Duffy or Lilly if she's worked hard? (Not if they like her. If she's worked hard)
su.vpeducation@qub.ac.uk
su.vpequality@qub.ac.uk

SU INSIDER2:

Spell it right. Also, I'd not consider associating someone with the GAA a smear...

I think you'll find Brogan's been about as pissed with us this year as any other officer. On the other hand, he's generally in the right on most important issues, and if this comes across in the reporting, that's not bias. It's things shown as they are.

Where we have taken a position, like on PRP for instance, it's because it's a good idea. Y'know, finding a way to MAKE sabbs stick to what they tell council (and students) they will do.

I've heard this described as "sucking up to the university" and can't really fathom that argument. People would only be rewarded for "sucking up to the university" if it was in their plan of work...

alright, so the lads missed a few meetings...end of the world?i dont tink so!when the library wasn't open for 24 hours round exam time at christmas, countless people went to them with their complaints....what happened?the problem got sorted!Why such a big deal is made amazes me!seems to me that people are just bitter and jealous that these two lads are getting paid to practically have student life for another year, add something to their cv and be well known figures around the university area!they did the work to get in, earned the votes...maith siad!

Glad the bias is becoming apparant, two sides to every story, and the year of the divided exec, poor president, and one time christian (laura) will be told this year.

also enough of calling duffy and lilly gaa types, they clear are not, just a smear to reflect badly on them. also see the gown didnt give adequate coverage to the council meeting, nothing more than id expect from mullan, a man that has been in brogans pocket all year.

How many times have a few law stooges posted under different names here? NOBODY< repeat NOBODY apart from the law stooges themselves think that lilly and duffy are "great men" "popular" or "would do anything for anybody" - you're doing a poor job of disguising the fact that there's just one or two of you posting away - probably Duffy and Lilly themselves!

Laura and the Hood...
Brogan the recluse...
Pauli...
Kidd...
Corridan...

These guys whether you like what they did in the last council meeting or not have worked hard in their posts. I have not always agreed with everything they have said or done (especially Pauli's attitude towards Pro-Choice issues). However I will say that they have worked very hard in their jobs and have only sought to better the union.

Those who argue otherwise are dim drunken halfwits who unable to argue their case have to attack the person.

Stop Bitching Guys! Man Up!

there's only what - 1400 law students, and maybe a few hundred GAA members? So they make up less that 10% of student population...

ever think that maybe the rest of council represents the other 90% of QUB students? :)

Fun Council meeting. Some unprofessional behaviour shown from Laura, she was not the Laura i voted and canvased for. Seems the popularity of Mr Lilly and Mr Duffy around campus this year has led to some petty and pathetic actions from Laura and also Mr Brogan. It's sad that two great popular men who would do anything for anybody were attempted to be ousted by the whims of a few sabs. The majority of council speaks for nothing considering the 20 odd people who voted for them come from the two largest representative tickets in Queens, the law ticket and also the Gaa ticket.

Peace to all,

XXX

I am quite dispairing at some of the commenter's attitudes to elected representatives. It would seem that some of them elect their representatives based on "craic" value. With atitudes like these there are only two solutions to making democracy work in the union.
1.Get new voters.
2.Create a strong and wise leader who has all the power.

"End the prolatarian democracy! Begin the revolution!" Marx

"This just might work!" Lenin

"It didn't!" Gorbachev

"but neither does democracy they elected me!" Every American President

I was in the Union foyer when the GAA/Law crowd were exiting - Mac Giolla Cheara being the biggest culprit for the idiotic shouting, air punching, and general jumping around like he had drunk too much Fanta. I'm assuming his overall failure in being successful in Union elections or actual playing of sports makes him No.1 sheep in Team Lilly/Duffy.

Roll on September so we can get rid of these incompetent eejits that are more intent on filling their CV's to show their future employers than doing any real good for the Student's Union.

@Hillarious

Craic Vs Anti-Craic is actually quite an astute observation. There would be no problems whatsoever with Paul and Barry doing what they do if only they hadn't been elected to do work instead!

The fact is they have been paid good money to fuck about for a year while others have had to cover for them. They were elected to do work, be under no mistake about this, they were not elected to do nothing and "have the craic" for a year.

They did not fulfill the work they were elected to do, they are poor sabbatical officers and have brought shame on their positions. They have furthermore brought shame on those that helped them get elected and then keep them in their seats after motions of no confidence.

If your reading this Paul and Barry I hope you accept what you have done, since PRP seems sure to be introduced next year you'll likely be the last do nothing Sabs for quite a while and that will be your legacy.

We'll always remember you but not for the reasons you hoped.

I particularly enjoyed the comment 'You have no mandate to get rid of these officers... you elected them', that really made me smile, of course we can get rid of officers, its our right, nay duty to get shot of elected officials if they do not perform their job

other highlights also included the 'some of you i'm seeing for the first time' gem from the speaker, proving the addage about stopped clocks, and the 3 minutes of grumbling following the hooting, grunting and braying from assorted Law/GAA councilors following the result. i swear normal council grumbling doesn't contain quite so many expletives.

The sad thing is comments like those written by "Taking the credit and the piss" is Laura Hawthorne herself

presbyterian talks a lot of sense! i see totally where he/she is coming from....brogan and his reform of sscc's!!! what real difference will that make? what has he really done this year apart from trying to pick fight with duffy and lilly? he didnt even speak at council, the look of guilt on his face was obvious for all to see! it soon changed to a look of disappointment after his year-long plot with mr. corridan and the so-called impartial nus-usi president failed. the fact that damian said that it wasn't personal made me laugh! the plan for shane/laura and this years 7th Sabbatical (damian) was to try and get rid of these boys from the word go...but duffy and lilly done well and have done some great work. pity thomas hogg wasnt around this year, he would have led the unionist votes in the right direction and voted against the motions brought against the 2 boys! he seen through brogan and corridan last year...two southerners coming up here and tryin to cause trouble...forget it boys! laura does not have a clue what she bes doing, her integrity has been called into question after his biased outburst against lilly. although i do agree that the behaviour of some students in the holyland on st patricks day is unacceptable, they are still students of this university and she should be defending them!

It clearly is not a secretarian divide,nor is there a gaa/law. V. Everyone else...it is outrageous that this would be suggested!!!the divide is clear to see though,it's sad to witness and a shame for those on the wrong side of it.the divide in the votes is clearly craic v. Anti craic!craic being those one that wnat to follow in the footsteps of paul+barry and enjoy their time at university,aim to have as much craic as possible before venturing into the real world.for all those bitchin+moaning on here,I feel sorry for you,really!complainin+moaning about something so ridiculous...go+get a drink in you.I hear the bot does 2pound offers these days.if you don't know where that is,give paul a shout-he'llbe glad to help any students.

@Chinese New Year

Laura did all the organisation, planning and booking for the event, stuff Paul should have done but didn't. Paul just showed up on the day to take credit for it, that's the kind of waster he is.

I wish it was an isolated occurrence but its not, too often this year the other sabs like Laura and the events staff have had to take up the slack for work Paul has neglected to do.

Don't worry though he was out socializing with his mates at The Bot, sorry I mean "getting involved on the ground with the students" so its all ok!

Why was Laura Hawthorne wearing a hood?

Is she THE HOOD!?

OMG she is! Laura Hawthorne is the hood!

Laura Hawthorne headed Chinese New Year? As a chinese student present at the event, she was not even there. Paul Lilly was actuvely involved chatting to myself and my friends. Great organised event. Laura Hawthorne is a sad individual. No wonder there is a split in the executive when she performs disgusting acts as seen on council.

I do want to congratulate her on her excellent work for the University however. By disciplining students instead of supporting them and behaving appallingly in recent days she is sure to land a job in the University. Question is why the hell did she run for a union post when she doesn't have a clue what is going on in campus?

I took the view that Barry Duffy hasn't been ENTIRELY useless this year. He has obviously failed to do a part of his job, he has failed to fulfil his programme of work and he has not communicated properly with council or with the student body at large. Missing a meeting to play football was the final straw. On the other hand, I believe that he was active in the advocacy side of his role. It would have been perverse to have sacked him at this stage in the year, just before the final exams, when advocacy becomes very important. The same can not be said for Paul Lilley. His work this year seems to have been totally minimal. The only thing he can say that he has done all year is the Chinese New Year celebration (and Laura Hawthorne seems to have led on that). He strikes me as a total waste of space.

More generally, the atmosphere in the room was very demotivated. Those of us who are regular attenders at council, who actually pay some attention to what is going on, were discusted by the behaviour of some of our colleagues. Council has been crippled this year by the wasters on it. We have struggled for a quorum all year, and havd rarely had enough members present to pass constitutional amendments. We can not have another year like this.

Are you on planet Earth?

Where is the bias?

Two sabbs have dones much less work all year than the others. They have missed meetings when others have made the effort to attend and contribute accordingly. Unlike from Gown reporters and councillors, sabbs are required to attend council meetings AND other meetingsa and committees, if not by the obigation of their job then at least courtesy.

The Gown have reported what went on at the Council meeting. They have reported all year what ahs went on at council meetings. The people who don't like this or are simply "sick of the bias" are probably people whom the Gowbn have written negatively about and highlighted flaws in their work. Re Adam, I'm pretty sure The Gown seen his running in the election as a step forward on the path to student issues being discussed at a higher level. There's no point in being hypothetial about this. Paul and Barry are hardly going to run for Westminster any time soon.

And even if they do, they might take a leaf from their friend Alex's book and run with the UUP.

lol'ing at the "ignorant sheep" of the gaa, the very people that the union can't get through its doors, mark my words, one club night, reduced bars and no food outlet, that the way the unions going and last wed's attempted ousting of two officers shows why

Poor Brogan he doesn't know how things operate up here in Northern Ireland, yes we'l remove two elected vps, all after a year of passing by his exec by, also laughing at the motions of no confidence: these would never have even have come to the floor if the president exercised some leadership and actually led, but thats prob too much to ask. also some good arguments were made at council against the two vps....nattt... one councillor saying 'it must mean something when two on the exec signed it...' sure we'll forget about the majority of the exec that support the rest. if brogan and hawthorne picked the fight with the university and not the union exec then maybe they wouldn't be licking the wounds this weekend. the only crime lilly and duffy are guilty of in my opinion, is acknowledging that the union is nothing but a talking shop, money making wing of the University. They did do a bit for students but were not getting involved in the students in the holyland bashing of Hawthorne, or pointless reform of ssccs by brogan. And what is perhaps the most poignant point of all is that the union is currently begging the gaa club with a 7k sponsorship deal, do the students even know about this or have any say over it? lol i thought so, University runs the Union, brogans a control freak who couldnt get his way, hawthorne...well lets just say let herself down.

Yes, I agree on Adam, anyone else and the Gown would have had a field day. I think everyone acknowledges the bias thats involved here. Also I hear he upset some of his future colleages with the photo of him giving the fingers to the Union, but if he not law/gaa he can get away with murder....

I feel so sorry for the Gown team having to read every single comment when SO MANY are complete misinformed shite.

"The Brogan/Helferty/Corridan/Hawthorne/Pauli/DUP/Rag plan failed!" = LOL!!!!!!!

On the other side, I am a Protestant who abstained for one of the sabs. The reason I did this was I felt that my counterparts, (and of course along with the pan RAG-CU-Liberal front) were determinted to put the boot into these two sabs for no reason at all, other that the fact that they may have enjoyed organising a drink in the bot, and have a REPUTATION for being in the GAA.

The reasons why everyone is reacting so badly to accusations of sectarianism is because there is some truth in the matter. Ok the motion may not have been wholly motivated by this, being forwarded by a councillor from the republic of Ireland gave it the at least appearance of neutrality. But what was never mentioned was that these sabs HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG. Ok they may not have left the same paper trail as Brogan or Hawthorne but is that a reason for booting them out? And I too laugh at reading about how the duo brought their own supporters; would like to inform you of the quiet whispering whipping of the Broghorne camp- clearly planning this all year. If the President had a problem with the two why not raise it with him? It was quite clear that some members of Council were going for blood all year. The motion against Alex Redpath is another perfect example. Whole thing looks very embarassing for the SU...

The fact that there's been 3 no confidence votes this year surely shows that there's summat wrong in the executive? If that's not the case then I'm sorry, but something must be up, even if members have survived?

@ one time councillor:

"the voting was protestant vs catholic bar a few exceptions, i think this was something that even the vc and registrar was picking up on…"

How so? As someone, indeed a Protestant and Unionist sorry to ruin you point, who voted IN FAVOUR of Lilly/Duffy giving them the benefit of the doubt in spite of and certainly not because off the rabble supporting them i'm sick of hear this nonsense.

Are any of the GAA groupies going to tell us what they basis their theory on?

A senior member of the DUA and Orange Society thanked Paul Lilly for his work this year too, he was the only councillor to do so. He was the only Unionist, UUP or DUP, i recall making any comment in relation to the pair.

Maybe you can list the Protestant/Unionists instrumental in constructing this attempted coup and what their prominent roles in it entailed??

and then maybe we can compare them with a list of liberals, RAG, international students, greens, people from other parts of the UK with little interest in NI socio-religious divisions, people from the Republic, councillors, VP's, male and female, Protestant, Catholic, Atheist and Agnostic......and maybe then we dismiss this propaganda some think they can make true if they repeat it enough.

How about you start arguing your point without talking nonsense about secterianism. You might like it to be true, it might make justifying your paper thin argument, but simply put it is nonsense.

Religion or NI politics played NO role on Weds evening, other than, perhaps, in the minds of those who thought they were taking on some grand Unionist conspiracy, who in turn are showing up their own bigotry....so either lets have you put up or shut up on the issue.

I, like many others of the "ragtag mob of street urchins" went to watch the emergency meeting because I was interested in the outcome of the vote and wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I'm so glad that I was able to understand what was going on throughout the meeting, especially since it's so complex…please- it obviously doesn't take a challenging degree to be involved with council by the looks of things!

I would like to clarify that there were a good number of us onlookers who were unable to vote. After sitting listening to people who clearly love the sound of their own voices, (for about two hours may I add) I think it was our own business if we wanted to leave once the results had been announced. Some of us did not have much to offer to the next subject of the night, particularly when we cannot vote and did not have anymore time to give to the already long winded meeting (some council members must not realise exam time is upon us and there are people who do study difficult degrees). The fact that we left together did not help, but painting us as some sort of ignorant, sectarian, chest beating, GAA tribesmen is totally ridiculous! This is student council, we’re not discussing world changing matters here.
Well done to Mr Lilly and Mr Duffy getting to stay on for the remaining 6 weeks of their term. It’s good to see that they didn’t become the sacrificial lambs that council obviously had planned for them. We seem to forget that they were just students last year and may not have had much work experience in the real world, the whole thing is a learning curve is it not? Publicly condemning them and whatever work they did do would not encourage future sabbs applying and as an outsider I think council has shot themselves in the foot when trying to show how much power they apparently do not have.

To those who care about this sort of thing at University, council and what not- fair play to you, each to their own. However, not to be disparaging about the whole thing, the plain and simple fact is that the majority of students at Queen’s really don’t give a shit! No point kidding ourselves….G’lack!!

YOU'RE ALL SHIT PEOPLE.

@ to me, to you

No, I think the wider concencus would be that if lilduff ran in the Westminster elections...people would die laughing. Sure it's not as if they'd be missed if they were on and off flights to London every few days.

Listen here, now you listen to me...if it was lilly or duffy runnin, you could just imagine the usual suspects complaining, making a big issue of it!!!! obviously adam wasnt going to get it, but the point im making is no matter what the circumstances were, if duffy or lilly ran and had no chance of winning, there would have been a huge deal made out of it! standards should be the same for everyone!

@ to me, to you

Do you not realise how great Adam running in the Westminster election was? He was never going to get in. He knew that. There was no fear of him double jobbing. Everyone knew that and if you didn't well then you're not very politically savvy. However, what it did was it opened up the possibilty of student issues being addressed on a national stage. How is that not good?

i know, what was she at! i love the fact too that not a word has been mentioned about adam mcgibbon running for westminster....obviously his heart lies with students...nat! what a power-hungry individual he is! if he wants to be in a position of power he would need to jump ship from the green-party....what a waste of time, theyre like a bunch of hippies! lmao

Sectarian?

*shakes head and feels sorry for those who put up this argument.

I'm a Catholic. Lots of my friends are Catholics. All Union/council/miscellaneous QUB students. We all think the result of the meeting was a disgrace.

We are GAA loving Catholics and we don't support Barry and Paul, so please stop linking us to the GAA/law/chuckle brothers support group.

It is a faux group that doesn't exist.

Also, I would like to add that the chuckle brothers' supporters that are posting here look pathetic. It's almost as though they fancy them. If I was told one of them had jumped off a roof to save a CB (chuckle brother) I wouldn't be one bit surprised. Would they do the same for you?

Go on. Answer me. I look forward to the rubbish spouting.

@ one time councillor

"and as for laura, speaking up like that may have taken courage. but what she neglected to mention was the help that duffy and lilly gave her during the year- cold calls, things up in stranmillis, st patrciks day, did they even get a thank you?"

They didn't get a thank you? Love, they get paid. It is their job. Would you ever wise up?

where's this sectarian nonsense coming from? i'm a catholic and i voted for the motion.

surely it's more sectarian to assume everyone against you must be protestant? :s

So many attacks on the hard working sabs here, throw enough shit at a wall eh?

Do yourselves a favor sheep and just post "Baa Baa Baa" from now on, it will be just as effective.